Spanking and the church
During her years of exploration, Aunty has found herself in some pretty dark corners of the Internet.
But none have been as bizarre as a site she was referred to by Magenta, one of her correspondents.
This site is run by the "La Vista Church", and it features a Q&A section where believers can pose questions to their pastor. There is, of course, a sub-section providing advice on how (and how not to) spank your children.
Magenta thought Aunty would be interested in a particular Q&A in which a mother writes the pastor with this concern:
I have a question regarding the disciplining of my 12 year old son. I have been using spanking as the punishment for bigger offences since he was a child. Yesterday I gave him a spanking, the first one he has gotten from me in a couple months. He swore at me when I told him that he had to come to church with me for the evening service. Afterwards I noticed he had an erection. I was so taken back by this and didn't know how to respond. I don't understand how he could have gotten any enjoyment from the spanking. The spanking I gave was quite hard and he was crying quite hard ...The pastor's response is quite startling. He writes:
In your case, you completely misunderstand what occurred with your son. A male's erection is caused by a small muscle in the pelvis squeezing on a vein that brings blood from the genitals and back to the heart. As more blood enters than can leave, the penis inflates and stiffens just like a balloon -- only with blood instead of air. When a boy is being spanked, obviously he will tense up. That tension will include the muscle that produces erections. At the same time, being spanked creates a strong emotional response which causes the heart to beat faster and stronger. The combination will produce an erection in a male that has nothing to do with pleasure or sexual thoughts. However, such physical response is embarrassing for both the boy and the one giving the spanking. It is for this reason that I strongly recommend that the spanking of a teenage boy be left to the father, or if his father is not available to a trusted adult male.Aunty is at a loss for words. What do readers think about the pastor's explanation? Surely his response is suspect, to say the least?
He also seems able to provide a suspiciously detailed account of how a penis can be expected to behave during a spanking.
All in all, Aunty thinks she's finally found a truly dark corner of the Internet.
posted by Aunty Agony at 3/07/2007 11:47:00 PM
44 Comments:
This is one of the most genuinely disturbing things I've read for a while - on a variety of levels. First, the kid is being forced, at the age of 12, to go along with his mother's religious practices. So much for growing up to form his own opinions!
Second, she feels it appropriate to administer a highly ambiguous form of corporal punishment on a (by definition) post-pubescent boy. (Can anyone still be naive enough to dispute that spanking - particularly certain forms - has a sexual dimension for many, many people?)
Thirdly, the nut-job to whom she turns for help has nothing to contribute but advising her to get a 'trusted male' to abuse him as her proxy.
Sickening.
It would be interesting to know if that explanation actually holds water. I would rather doubt it. I cringe at the thought of that man suggesting having a trusted male friend spank the boy--there sure is room for disaster there. And surely it would be just as embarrassing to have that reaction if his father was spanking him? All in all, sounds to me like the clergyman is either hiding his head in the sand, or at the very least, asking the mother to.
Another shocking case of child abuse. It is totally irresponsible to force religious practices of the parents on minor children. They should be allowed to choose whether or not they want to follow a religion once they are adults. Abusing children by force-feeding religion to them is barbaric and dangerous.
The pastor’s explanation of how a young boy might experience an erection when being spanked seems to have some validity. I can well remember my mother using the razor strap on me and how it tended to make me aware of my own sexuality. I invariably got hard at a time that I had no real idea of what sex was all about. I knew that it made my mother uneasy but she never discussed the condition with me. I also knew that rubbing and fondling it felt good. I usually found that (what my mother called ‘abusing myself’) eased some of my embarrassment over how I had howled for mercy while she was spanking me and helped me feel better about myself. I also discovered that it felt best after the fire in my bottom had eased a little and melted into a rather pleasant warmth. I don’t doubt for a minute that my boyhood experiences are the root cause of why my wife and I have always used spanking as a part of our sex life.
I don’t think that the solution would have been for my mother to turn her duty to punish over to a man. A boy needs the influence of forceful feminine authority figures and he responds to strong physical demonstrations of that authority. If corporal punishment is going to be used at home or in school it is probably best if a female disciplinarian administers it.
She should not have the luxury of ignoring or showing embarrassment if her charge has an erection. This is an ideal time to talk to a younger boy about why this is happening and what his condition implies. If she is dealing with a young man, she may view the condition as impertinent. She needs to discuss his thoughts thoroughly with him and add additional punishment if she feels he is harbouring any lustful fantasies that involve her. In either case many disciplinarians will see a stiff penis as an indication that the spanking has not yet been totally effective.
Most modern women will allow a certain amount of masturbation in unmarried males. She is unlikely to want the habit to grow out of control but knows that it may be necessary on some occasions. A disciplinarian will usually view it as anti-productive if indulged in within twenty-four hours of a strapping.
She needs to make it clear as to how long any prohibition will apply and then see that the male is properly supervised during that period.
Jack
I think the Pastor was using Pseudo science to explain something he didn't really know how to explain because of his convictions, and the sensitivities of his parishioner.
Kallisto's head in the sand argument holds much water. The asking of a “trusted male” to administer punishment by proxy is either a pre-amble to volunteering in which case “Lets have a lynching”, or was genuine but idiotic attempt to pass the monkey, and to put faith in the mother to pass the monkey to the father (still unpleasant).
As for us criticising the mothers stifling of the boys free will, lets not forget that he swore and refused to go to evening service. One suspects that any future devotion to some deity will be sorely tempered by the knowledge that the hand of god visited his butt when he refused to tow the line, and in my experience if that seed of doubt or dissent is sown, then by “God” it grows.
We as spankophiles, (however we were made), will feel guilt and angst reading this account (though if you’re a regular on SFR you probably had a wank), maybe by virtue of our path to where we are now, or because we are disturbed by the practices of some child bearing age adults who mainstream society would say “we are as we are because we were beaten as children”. Yet by all accounts many, if not most were not.
Finally lets hear it for religious advice. Er… or maybe not.
I think that the "pastor" is a first class NUT!!!
His advice is lunacy in my opinion!!
Jack
At some point during your thread you forgot the context and started mentally masturbating.
This is the 21st Century and in all fairness beating your child for not going to church is in plain old Anglo Saxon "Fucked up in the extreme".
All your talk of discussing the "Hard-on" with the child after the beating, and the fact that maybe the beating didn't quite "hit the spot" demonstrates a really pastor like stupidity.
I hope to god you haven't got any children.
Here's my explanation for the boy's hard-on. Very young boys--even baby boys--get erections in the bathtub (from the water moving and stimulating them). That could just be the case here--simple friction. Whether this kid is or isn't turned on by spanking can only be determined by him. I think the pastor's explanation of the erection was a little off-base, though. Muscle tension can certainly be provoking--sexually--but I've never heard an erection explained in those terms.
Aunty I expect your adjudication regarding the comments so far, forthwith. This debate/matter was raised by you and eight comments later your silence is apparent.
Failure to comply will result in a trip to the pulpit, followed by a swift bending over a pew for six of the best.
ttfn
Aunty there are all sorts of Christian boards that discuss the spanking of children. Ever heard of Goodfther. (I'm not sure how he spelled it.)Spank With Love?
The preacher ought to stick to preaching and leave the physiology to someone that knows what they are talking about.
Spanking is something done between consenting adults. Hitting children is child abuse.
The pastor's response is not just nonsense, although it is that, but like the mother's question it's packed with the assumptions of a mind in total denial. How does the mother know her son has an erection unless she's made him disrobe, and if that's the case, how could she believe she was doing anything but sexualizing the experience? She's not just an idiot, she's a raging hypocrite.
In any event, it's fairly well known by now, in law enforcement and psychiatric circles, that some (not all) victims of rape and other abuse experience a confusing, seemingly contradictory arousal while they're being attacked. It's just a physiological response, though not of the kind the pastor tries to explain by pulling some quasi-scientific baloney out of his...whatever. Any 12 year old boy can tell you that erections have no reason and need no reason, they make up their own -- when you're trying to listen in class or walking home or playing basketball, or a cute female between 11 and 31 says anything to you, like "Hi" or "Go to the office" or "Stay for dinner."
The point is, if you're still "spanking" a kid at 12, maybe it's not working any more, unless you'd rather spank him instead of finding some other alternative, and if that's the case, what are you getting out of it, Ma? And don't give me that crap about it not being "sexual," as if that somehow made it okay.
It's never okay to hit someone smaller and less experienced than you. Life is actually pretty long, there's room for a lot of mistakes, but if you're going to represent yourself as a grown-up -- i.e., someone's parent -- then it's time to take a serious, ongoing look at how you can do it well, and leave denial behind with your own childhood. If it doesn't break your heart to cause your children pain, for any reason, it's time to ask yourself why.
That's what a pastor with a shred of decency would tell her.
The kid is a future spanko - no big deal. Them mom is stupid for needing to see a pastor over her kid's erection. Some wacko pastor (or was it a priest) wants to pair up a boy with an erection and an adult male. He of course is positioning himself for the role of "trusted adult male". I just love "the church".
Wow... to say I am shocked and disturbed, for more reasons than I could type here, is the biggest understatement of the year, at least for me!
I'm ever so glad that I am not a promoter of organized religion... for reasons like this among others.
Hugs,
Tiggs
Wow..
When ignorant people get together in large groups such things are bound to happen. This is the same brand of thinking telling us the earth is 6000 years old and that fossils were put in the earth to "test your faith".
What the hell is a pastor doing giving medical advice? Why doesn't she ask a doctor? Or why doesn't she read up on it herself? This smacks of the mindset of relying on religious clerics for EVERYTHING.
In response to cg's comment. I was forced to go to a church until I was 18, fundies don't care what you think, they are "true believers" and will "convince you" to "see things their way". They are so convinced they are right and that they are "saving your soul from hell" that the reasoning becomes entirely machiavellian. Their ends (which are ill defined) justify everything.
Children /should/ be allowed to form their own religious opinions and be left to them. Unfortunately it would be impossible to legislate such a thing, let alone enforce it. It is, unfortunately, a nightmare.
It is disturbing that for so many children, their view of "god" is that of a big brother figure.
"It is totally irresponsible to force religious practices of the parents on minor children. They should be allowed to choose whether or not they want to follow a religion once they are adults."
Good. He can make that decision when he's an adult. Right now he's 12.
Last poster - surely you cannot be suggesting that it is appropriate to literally torture adolescents into going along with ones superstition of preference? 'Come to my church, or I will beat & humiliate you until you cry.' Dear god ...
cg,
I don't like organized religion any more than you do (just a guess ;), but in the mother's defense, she was spanking the boy for CUSSING at her when she told him to go to church wit her, not for him refusing to go to church... at least that's what she said in her letter...
True enough, anonymous - though I don't approve of semi-sexual abuse as an appropriate response to adolescent impertinence either. My response was more to, em, other anonymous's (or same anonymous? it's so hard to tell) point re choosing his own religion. Why not treat it like politics, and leave the question open until he's old enough to choose for himself?
Frankly, his mother sounds like a prize gimp (at best), and her pastor sounds at least as bad. I have every sympathy for the kid for swearing at her. Let's just hope in a few years he has the gumption to get the hell away from the whole 'Hills Have Eyes' set of them, and doesn't end up passing the same abuse onto his own kids.
Just FYI, erections don't necessarily indicate sexual arousal. For example, soldiers throughout history have reported getting erections before going into battle; a full bladder can also cause it; and many men get erections while asleep, even in the absence of sexual dreams. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case here, but it's possible.
Penile erection usually results from sexual stimulation and/or arousal, but can also occur by such causes as a full urinary bladder or spontaneously during the course of a day or at night, often during erotic or wet dreams. An erection results in swelling and enlargement of the penis. Erection enables sexual intercourse and other sexual activities, though it is not essential for all sexual activities. In the presence of mechanical stimulation, erection is initiated by the parasympathetic division of the autonomic nervous system (ANS) with minimal input from the central nervous system. Parasympathetic branches extend from the sacral plexus into the arteries supplying the erectile tissue; upon stimulation, these nerve branches initiate the release of nitric oxide, a vasodilating agent, in the target arteries. The arteries dilate, filling the corpora spongiosum and cavernosa with blood. Erection subsides when parasympathetic stimulation is discontinued; baseline stimulation from the sympathetic division of the ANS causes constriction of the penile arteries, forcing blood out of the erectile tissue.
The cerebral cortex can initiate erection in the absence of direct mechanical stimulation (in response to visual, auditory, olfactory, imagined, or tactile stimuli) acting through erectile centers in the lumbar and sacral regions of the spinal cord. The cortex can suppress erection even in the presence of mechanical stimulation, as can other psychological, emotional, and environmental factors.
The priest is a complete nutbag. 12 years old is way too old to spank. Almost anything gives 12-14 yr old males erections (i was one). Who knows if it was f/ the spanking? maybe he was reading a good porn rag f/ his dad before she went moga about the whole chuch deal. One of the saddest days in any males life is when it just won't lift :(.
Conky
May I make a very late comment?
I agree with the folks who found the correspondence between mother and minister to be very, very creepy.
I think it's also creepy in another way: Mom shouldn't be seeing a son this age when he doesn't have all of his clothes on.
It's just more unfair to him that she did.
At least that's my opinion.
I was spanked in a religious home for years -until i was 10 when my parents were divorced. When I became sexually active later i went to a psychologist, b/c I began experiencing intense shame and other psychological problems. One of the things I confessed is that when I was younger i began having spanking fantasies -this is something that I hadn't told anyone and I felt a lot of shame about. My psychologist told me that this is extremely common in children that are spanked -especially as they get older. Apparently the muscles are connected and so whether a child likes it or not it becomes sexual. Quite sad. I am fine now, but spankings are not one of my fettishes as you might imagine. the religious advocation of spanking is something that infuriates me. it is wrong, wrong, wrong on so many levels.
As someone who was also spanked for not wanting to go to church, I can truly related to this whole story. I am now in my mid forties,but back in th e60's and 70's I was spanked for majors offences just like the boy in the story. In fact my mother could have written the original letter back then. I was spanked with a large "soriety" paddle pants down or off and often got an erection. In my case it made for a much harder spanking...and time in the corner until it went away. By this time I couldn't wait to get to my room to masterbate. I don't agree w/ contacting a pastor or anyone else. My mother was convinced the erection was caused by my enjoying the spanking or some other far fetched offbase reasoning. This went on into my mid to late teens.
I don't if this caused my attraction to spanking or not but i believe it did.
Methinks there's more to this than mere blood flow. I wonder what goes on under said Pastor's cassock when talking about spanking?
Aunty, I love your site. I am a spanker myself, casual though, more a third cousin agony. :)
I run the Quips & Chains Fetish Blog, and I am putting up a link to your site, unless you'd rather I not. It will be in my forthcoming links directory, under spanking (of course). Please take a look at my blog, and if you like it, consider linking to it on your site. I've only been in charge of it for three weeks, so it's still in metamorphosis, but there's enough for you to get a taste of my ...well, taste.
Kudos on an excellent site!
A few points are being ignored here.
1) Many preachers/priests in mainstream churches, as part of their training for ordination, get a degree (or the equivilent thereof) in psychology. It could well be that his counciling was to make the mother feel more comfortable, simply because she was freaking out essentially over nothing.
2) Like it or not, corporal punishment has been a standard method of child-rearing for thousands of years, and for most, it worked (unless someone wants to suggest that children today are more well-behaved than when it was common, which is a losing argument). At least in a predominantely rural area such as the one where I live, it is not particularly unusual for a parent to spank their children, even as teenagers. Until fairly recently, it wasn't uncommon for teachers to do it either; many of my friends as well as myself had to "bend over and grab your ankles" for 3-5 with the paddle, even in high school. If your parents found out about it, you got another one when you got home. It was a known risk of misbehavior, and if you got caught, then you took the licks. We tried to avoid it, but didn't really consider it that big of a deal. Since it had the potential to happen to everybody, it didn't affect your social status. Most of us turned out to be reasonably normal. And yes, defiance and swearing at your parents would definately get your butt whipped, and in my own opinion, based on half a century of experience, it should.
3) As a man, I can tell you that lying face down, be it over a knee , flat on a bed, or even bent over a table or desk (doing whatever, not simply spanking or sex play) does indeed put pressure on your genitals, and tends to make you much more likely to get an erection, even if nothing sexual is happening (That's why the old meditation texts suggested never trying it in a facedown position.). If this kid is like most teenaged boys, it doesn't take much to make that happen anyway!
4) Finally, whatever position she had him in and whether she took his pants down or not, if he has an erection, it will very often be obvious even through denim jeans, unless he is wearing some very tight shorts.
5) Yes, it's possible that he likes to be spanked. So what? I don't think I'm going to cast the first stone over that...
Any rational person with any trace of common sense could obviously tell this "church" author is a fetishist! Come one! He is advocating the abuse of children and that site needs to be taken down. I think it's arousing but it's wrong wrong wrong!
Hmmm, so we can explain female physiological arousal how? Must be something pushing on the ovaries?
i dont realy understand people that like being spanked whith no sexual feeling,as when ive been over some ones knees i get excited whith resulting explosion.
As a teenage boy, all I can say is: eww. Yes, the kid is getting sexually aroused. Do you want him to connect that arousal with males or females? If you're going to continue spanking him, at least associate the arousal with females, it's the least you can do for him.
Sometimes I come across people who blog that are so full of bullshit it amazes me...this thread is so full of people who are idiots
The vast majority of you missed so many points it is not even funny.
The 12 year boy is a child, he does what he is told or he suffers the consequences...that is part of life...if my son cussed at me for going to church he would definitely get his ass smacked and his mouth washed out...
Abuse??? bullshit...abuse is letting your kid run off at the mouth and not teaching him any morals or sense, or the fact that there are consequences to every decision. Furthermore make a child go to church does not hurt him and in fact may help him...he may learn something of value, like the difference between right and wrong. When he is an adult and paying his own bills he can make his own decisions...
The pastor gave a perfectly logical explanation, the boy had a biological response... period. If any of you had any training in nursing you would know this to be true. Anyone trying to state otherwise is so screwed up in their own head and trying to push off their own sexual issues on this pastor and mother. Pull your head out of your ass...not everyone who spanks gets off on it...there is a difference between discipline and sexual spanking...big difference...why do so many in the spanking community not understand this? I can only assume so many of you are the perverts...
There are definitely perverts out there who would hurts kids...this however was not an example of one...so you all pull your head out of the gutter...many decent people were spanked as a child and were not abused...they turned out fine, and do not have all the bullshit hang ups that so many of you have on this blog!
s
This last anonymous comment will not stand. I had the bogus christian religion crammed down my throat with a belt and it ruined my life. The recent avalanch of scandals involving child abuse and the clergy is irrefutable. The person with their head inserted in an orifice is you. If you are surfing this blog you ought to lighten up on the name calling since all of your insults apply to you. Their are alternative methods of behavior modification that don't involve simulating a childs sexual areas. I suspect you are an unregistered predator at large.
The comments will not stand? Oh I think they do. The very fact you got so personal and accused me of a false accusation is evidence that my comments hit home.
Actually tiger I happen to run my own discussion group about domestic discipline (consensual adults in a loving relationship), but the reason why I chose to go anonymous is because of the very things you said here that are so bias and judgmental toward parents who take the responsibility to discipline. I do not need that directed at my site.
People like you accuse those out there who have solid education and background of being pedophiles because of your own hangups. Many of us were spanked and turned out fine, in fact great. Many of us have spanked our kids and they turned out great as well. I happen to have four adult kids, all turned out well, none blame me for ruining them...I did not abuse them, but when they stepped over the line they got spanked, not often, but enough that it taught them consequences.
From your background of abuse there is probably a good chance you are the one who is most likely a pedophile. I am sorry for your misfortune, but don't project your issues on me or other responsible parents who take the initiative to discipline and train their kids to be decent citizens.
One merely needs to look around at the liberal parenting style to see it is not working...abuse is not the answer, but reasonable discipline such as an occasional spanking is NOT ABUSE no matter what some spanko says.
You raise your kids your way, I will raise mine my way...so far mine are something I can be proud of...
S
To anonymouse commenter #32, it's obvious by your mere presence here that you did not "turn out fine". You've got your own domestic discipline web site but you turned out "fine"? You think your kids are "fine"? I wonder what they think. I know many people who have raised kids without violence and their children turned out to be amazing, free thinking and uninhibited artistically and otherwise. I'm not a pedophile and will never harm a child. You are and you do under the guise of parenting. Your lucky this page is five months stale or the other commenters would rip you to pieces.
tiger are you trying to say that those of us who believe in domestic discipline are not stable? "The very fact I am "here" shows I am not fine?" I am not certain what you are claiming. Are you trying to make a blanket statement that indicates those of us who are into adult spanking are messed up? That is what it sounds like to me.
Adults into spanking for erotic pleasure domestic discipline are emotionally unstable in your mind? What are you doing here in the first place if you think that?
My frustration with this thread was that people like you automatically conclude that parents who spank are perverts...that is just not the case...in fact statistic prove that the majority of parents DO spank their kids at least a few times during childhood...so they are all perverts in your mind??? You need your head examined, not me...
I do not care if this thread was five months stale, it is still on the main page and I happened to find it. I really could care less if others "rip me to shreds". A few other people with wacked out opinions are not going to intimate me. And I will again say stop trying to project your own issues one me...you are the one with the hangups not me.
I laughed my ass off when you referred to free thinking and artistic, sounds like liberal bs bias to me. As if the policeman, school teacher, museum curator and army solider I raised are some how less of a person because I disciplined them as children and expected them to attend church every Sunday. I am proud that they happen to have the self discipline today to stay in the game and be decent citizens...I am not the one going down to the courts bailing out my "free thinking free loader" child as so many others who never disciplined their kids often do...
Sorry your argument is full of crap and so are you...
S
In the first place I did not say that you are not stable, I said that you did not "turn out fine" . BY that I mean that obviously you were profoundly affected by the violence you experienced and it changed the way your brain got wired. This is something I think we have in common.
Point two; In my view, people who spank children maybe perverts but they should be treated as criminals. In Norway and Sweden when I was there it was a crime punishable by a mandatory ten years in prison. The countries I mention are considered by most to be two of the most civilized populations on the planet.
Point three; I'm not entirely sure what museum curator entails, but the other three jobs require a tremendous amount of conformaty and stifleing of individuality. Are you sure they weren't affected?
Point four; You make a lot of assumptions about liberals that are not necesarily true. "Free thinking", OK, but "freeloader" thats quite a stretch. As far as picking someone up at the jail goes, anyone can be arrested and if you look at the stats I beleive you will find that most prisoners were in fact spanked as children. I'd be proud to pick up at the jail any kid brave enough to risk their freedom by protesting the cruel war. And finally, since you've outed yourself as another knuckle dragging, throwback, neocon, we come to point 5.
Point five; You cannot be a republican and a christian at the same time. A christian worships Jesus Christ who beleived in love and forgiveness, cared about the sick, cared about the poor, and would not cluster bomb innocent women and children for fun and profit. None of these things are republican values. Republicans are the money changers He threw out of the temple long ago (if you beleive the scriptures).
And now, if you care to reread what the other commenters have submitted already, you will find that you have already been torn to peices. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
Dear anonymous #34 (& #32 & #30 & other),
I refuted your statements point for point a few days ago but either the mediator is asleep at the switch, my comments were too on target and political, or there was technical difficulty. At any rate I will ty to reproduce my comments and see if it makes it through this time.
Point one; I didn't say that you were unstable, I said that you were not fine. By this I mean that you were profoundly affected by the events that led you to becoming a spanko. This I think we have in common.
Point two; When I was in Norway and Sweden the penalty for striking a child was ten years in prison. In my view adults who strike children are not just perverts but criminals. The two countries I mention are considered to be amoung the least violent and most civilized places on the planet.
Point three; If you reread the other comments objectively you will find that you have already been ripped to pieces.
Point four; I realise that as a she bear you feel obligated to defend your cubs, but are you sure they are fine? I'm not sure what duties museum curator entails but cop and soldier require a tremendous amount of stifled individualism and conformacy. School teacher, well, you don't have to surf far to find this scenario in our brand of pervy!
Point five; I'm surprised that when you brought up "liberal bs" that you left out pencil necked, long haired and bed wetting. Since you have essentially revealed your politics I must say that I would be proud to pick up any kid from the jail that protests the war. Which leads me to point six...
Point six; You can't be a christian and a right winger at the same time. Christians try to follow the path of Jesus who cared about the sick and the poor and beleived in peace and forgiveness and turning the other cheek. None of these things are Republican values. Republicans are the money changers that He threw out of the temple! He wouldn't carpet bomb innocent women and children for fun and profit!
Finally; I think you should have your mouth washed out with soap by your significant other for the language in your final sentence, and I hope your soldier comes back on his own two feet, insh'Allah!
To the anonymous user who signs his posts with "S":
You support the spanking of children, yet you write: "I happen to run my own discussion group about domestic discipline (consensual adults in a loving relationship), but the reason why I chose to go anonymous is because of the very things you said here that are so bias [sic] and judgmental toward parents who take the responsibility to discipline. I do not need that directed at my site."
I find this approach to be extremely self-contradictory. If you truly believe that there are good reasons for the spanking of children, and if you consider it to be such a healthy and great thing, then why are you afraid to reveal your identity and link to your discussion group? Surely you have good arguments to present for your views, to convince us that they are indeed valid? I'd say let us hear them, and let us hear from those at the discussion group who agree with you.
But you seem afraid to do that. You claim that this is because those who disagree with you are "biased and judgmental", and not (by implication) arguing rationally. But if that is the case, surely it would be easy for you to defend your views and disprove the opposing ones.
So, if you truly believe that what you practice is good and right, then there is no reason to hide behind the anonymity of the internet, or to withhold from us what you supposedly have to say in favour of your views. You mention your "solid education and background" - well, what are you worried about, then? You'll blow us and our poor reasoning away with it!
Claiming to support something, but evading discussion with those who might disagree, is not only intellectually unsound, it is also an act of cowardice.
I must also disagree with your claim that you "turned out fine" (despite being spanked as a child). For one thing, despite their fondness for physical discipline, your parents seem to have forgotten to teach you any manners. You write to Tigerbutt: "Your argument is full of crap and so are you." You are also referring to the other posters in this thread as "idiots", "screwed up" and "perverts", you characterize their views as "bullshit" and tell them to "pull your head out of your ass".
That is the sort of language and ad hominem attacks which I would expect from a petulant teenager, not from a supposedly mature, well-adjusted person who is a parent and has raised four kids.
My parents didn't use corporal punishment, but they tried to teach me politeness and restraint. They also taught me that resorting to name-calling and personal attacks in a debate does nothing to add substance to your arguments, and only damages your credibility.
Thank you Ludwig. I think your comments will put the final kibosh on that one, forcing a retreat to the dark corner of the internet from whence it came. Bravo!
My mom was a religious nut that hated anything to do with sex. Yet she always made me take off my pants and underwear for a whipping with the belt. I would often get erections when she did this. She was disgusted by this that she would whip my bare penis with the belt until the erection went away. Of course I'm a spanko today!
Um - whats wrong with being a cop - try shouting out for a liberal or social worker next time you are being mugged.
What I find disturbing about this initial post is the whole sexual dimension implied in what is a family area - I equally find it distasteful to read on blogs all the 'Daddys coming to give you a spanking' stories in regard to teenage children given that they appear on websites devoted to erotic spanking. Spanking of adults by adults fine - spanking of children esp teenage children with all the attendant trappings - yuck
I never knew why I felt that spanking was so erotic - I just know I always have. I don't have children, but I couldn't imagine ever spanking them. To me, that would be sexual abuse - how could it not be? The pastor that was answering the questions was extremely creepy and most likely sexually repressed. He likened having a spanking fetish to being gay. How insane is that? And since when is being gay a "fetish"? As soon as I read that - I realized he was an intolerant fool.
For a young boy it's a very disturbing situation, I was brought up in a very strick household where spankings with a paddle were comon, at the age of 12 though I was being given a much more harder than usual paddling that I too had an erection, my first that I could remember, when my mom saw this she almost went beserk, I remember it now as the worst thrashing of my life, after that it became a catch 22 situation, I played-up, told by my mom that I would thrashed later on and that my butt would be 'glowing red' by the time she had finished, this made me aroused so that when the spanking started I became erect almost at once, which ment that I would be hit even harder, I think my mom thought she could thrash it out of me, luckly one day I was told as usual "young man very shortly your butt is going to to sting REAL bad" sent to my room to wait for her to call me, but for some reason she had to go round to neighbours and did'nt come back all afternoon, by the time she came back through the door and said "down her NOW" I had such an enormous erection That I could barely hide it, I barely lasted a minute once I was put over her knee and the spanking started, through all my usual crying and begging I had my first orgasm, mom did'nt notice at first untill she stood up, I don't know who was more embaressed, her or me, after that it was my dad who gave the spankings, but they were done at once and quickly so no more erections for me.
Not as unusual as you might think, I remember having an erection while being spanked as a kid before I even knew what it was, I remember the fear and anticipation beforehand, the pain during and after the spanking but the erection? nothing sexual even if I did get a harder spanking if my mom seen my erection, vicous circle if ever...
Re Original Item:
A boy - with a two-digit age especially - being exposed in front of a female including his mother, is quite enough to get an erection. It is sexual even though he is having too much pain to really enjoy it. He can't stop it and neither can she (hopefully she doesn't believe in mutilation or torture). It is true there are other influences, but by then his gonads are kicking in, so at that point any sense of being sexually naked in her presence will trigger a boner and it is unlikely anything will help that except masturbation, which I doubt the church wants to encourage.
Time to find another discipline method. And maybe another religion. Just a suggestion.
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